Bonus Round - Best Uematsu-Hamaguchi In-Game Work

[Chris]

Go here (http://www.squareenixmusic.com/uematsu.php) to vote for your favourite Uematsu-Hamaguchi in-game work. These weren't included in the main contest as the amount of work Uematsu did on some was very limited (he just composed the melody and planned the song structure of Suteki da ne, for instance). I couldn't really make this a pairings battle as 10 is an impractical number there. So it's all against all. Which will win? There's certainly a lot of classics fighting it out.

[Neo Locke]

Memora... for me, the FFXI Opening Theme is just so rich in terms of emotion.

[Chris]

Oh my goodness.
This is sooo obvious.
"One-Winged Angel" shall win. :)

What? Even against "Liberi Fatali". I think it'll be a close call.

As for me, I'm still pondering, but I think "Ending Theme" (FFVIII) will get my vote with "FFXI Opening Theme", "Liberi Fatali", and "Suteki da ne -Orchestra Version-" trailing behind.

[Don]

Just to let you know, it says Ending Theme (FFXI) when it should be just (X). As for me, I'm gonna go with FITHOS LUSEC WECOS VINOSEC. I love that song. It's tribal sounding, really fits the parade scene in which it's played, and it has the Succession of Witches motif that I love so much. I don't care how many votes it gets, it's a fantastic piece in my eyes (and ears!).

[TheShroud13]

"Liberi Fatali" is far and away my choice. The pop songs are orchestrated too much for my tastes, and "One Winged Angel" never worked it for me all that hard. "FITHOS. . ." would be my second choice, I always found that quite memorable and exciting - but I think the more contrast filled "Liberi Fatali" takes me more places each time I listen. Plus it works it works so well with that opening movie.

The "FFXI Opening . . ." and "FFX Ending . . ." both are pretty solid contenders as well - but neither really feel all that much like Uematsu to me. I think both sound a lot more like Warcraft than Final Fantasy. * shrugs *

[Chris]

Just to let you know, it says Ending Theme (FFXI) when it should be just (X).

Whoops! Fixed. Thanks. :)

[Resk]

It's a very tough choice - I like a lot of the tracks that are on that list. But for some reason, I've always been partial to the FFX ending, so I think I'll vote for that... simply because I can't bring myself to decide between the other themes.

[weabblewill]

One-Winged Angel (OWA)- it’s a true classic in my opinion, it’s zany, oppressing, and heart-pounding. I feel OWA was the stepping stone for Liberi Fatali in FFVIII in terms of being the composer pair’s first ground-breaking integration of choir, gothic tone, and orchestra in one original composition. Liberi Fatali has better sound quality, but I don’t know if it has as big of an impact as OWA. Liberi Fatali would be number 2 for me.

Personally, I’d love to pair One-Winged Angel against Gilgamesh in a separate contest and see which one would win!!!

[Chris]

Personally, I’d love to pair One-Winged Angel against Gilgamesh in a separate contest and see which one would win!!!

You mean a round of 'Winner of Best Uematsu Work' vs. 'Winner of Best Uematsu-Hamaguchi Work'? That can easily be arranged. :)

[Resk]

I think if that pairing ever came up, it would be widely based on what version of OWA was chosen to compete... some versions are better than the original in my opinion, while other versions are equal to it, if not worse.

[GoldfishX]

Wow, Fithos Lusec Wecos was a Hamaguchi one? Didn't know that.

Anyway, OWA gets a vote, followed by Suteki Da Ne, with Fithos being a close 3rd. Again...Battle theme FTW.

[Pandemonium]

Liberi Fatali is just perfect, nothing else can really be compared to it in my opinion it is so amazing. OWA got old rather quickly for me, LF has endured and even after the 1000th listen the opening chant still sends shivers down my spine. They are all great to be fair.

[Ronito]

Oh come on it's obvious. One Winged Angel by a mile. I remember the first time that I heard it come on, I remember thinking to myself, "This is something I'll never forget." Also how could anything based on works of Hendrix not win?

[Resk]

You know, to tell you the truth, to this day I still don't get why people find OWA to be this massive god-like track when it comes to Final Fantasy themes. I mean, the track itself in the game isn't overly impressive - the track only becomes something interesting when it's paired with a live orchestra and choir, and even then, depending on the arrangement, sometimes isn't all that spectacular.

I mean, I'm not going to sit here and argue that the track isn't a "good" track, beccause it certainly is - every FF game has it's own special track that is designed to get the player's attention. But when you look at the actual NOTES of the piece, there is little variation in the patterns, and the chord progressions are far too random in their construction for my tastes.

[Black Mamba]

My eyes narrow straight down to "Liberi Fatali" and "OWA" obviously. Despite my FFVII fanism, I voted for "Liberi Fatali". Its an epic piece of music, very theatrical; alot of which is thanks to Hamaguchi's orchestration. My top three here...

1. Liberi Fatali
2. One-Winged Angel
3. Ending Theme (FFX)

I just feel "Ending Theme" needed recognised. If it weren't for the classics' competing, it would deserve the winning title.

[Boco]

It was a tough choice, but I ended up voting for FFVIII's Ending Theme. Don't really have an actual reason for my vote at the moment. That piece just seemed to consistently "jump" out at me.

But when you look at the actual NOTES of the piece, there is little variation in the patterns, and the chord progressions are far too random in their construction for my tastes.

Actually, what you said is true of nearly all music... and therein lies the problem with music analysis. ;) There's only so many ways to arrange all those little black dots... and most have already been done multiple times.

You can imagine my disappointment when I had to play the French Horn part for Beethoven's 5th symphony... "What? You mean I only play like 3 notes? Crap..."

[Dark Cloud]

Wow, such a hard pairing. I am torn between OWA and Liberi Fatali. Personally, I like Advent: OWA better, so Liberi Fatali is my choice. Now, an Advent and Liberi Fatali pairing is a whole different story...

[Resk]

Actually, what you said is true of nearly all music... and therein lies the problem with music analysis. ;) There's only so many ways to arrange all those little black dots... and most have already been done multiple times.

Well, what I meant, was that although music in general does have recurring patterns, the variety of those patterns in this track is very small, which doesn't make the track very interesting. With Liberi Fatali, for example, there are distinct sections with few repeats throughout the entire track, which gives a better variation to the track.

[Boco]

With Liberi Fatali, for example, there are distinct sections with few repeats throughout the entire track, which gives a better variation to the track.

Got it. I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to the theme in each piece; not the structure. Liberi Fatali is definitely more concise and through-composed.

[Scherzo]

FFX's Ending Theme gets my vote, for both fitting in well with the cinematic it accompanies, but still being an excellent piece of music on its own. That can't be said for either FFVIII's Ending Theme or FFXI's Opening Theme.

[Nathan Black]

I don't even REMEMBER Liberi Fatali, but Fithos has stuck with me for quite some time.

The only thing I'll remember One-Winged for for the rest of my life is how my cousins, not understanding the Latin, substituted everday words in for the lyrics and sang along with the song. I was never touched by the tune, myself, and find it reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally annoying, to be honest. I mean, disturbingly so. Those chord stabs in the beginning? The arpeggiating descents that follow? It's just nasty to me. Nasty.

But, I must say, hearing the words, "Quesadilla with some cheese" superimposed over dramatic Latin choir makes any song awesome.

[Zhetty]

FFXI Opening Theme deserves more love. It was amazing when I first listened to it, and still is today.

[Kaibigan]

Broke out of my hiatus to post on this thread. :)

I can't believe Liberi Fatali in't winning outright! I guess this just solidifies: To each his own. :)

Go LIberi Fatali!

[SephirothLaguna]

I've always been a fan of Eyes on me.
It just... touches me in the right place...

[insertnamehere]

Oh my god i rememeber the first time I have heard leberaty fitaly. I loved It I mean I was in awed when I heard It the came the ending worst Nobuo Uematsu ending ever. It sounded like an opening to a movie not a game. Now everytime I listen to the song I stop It before the triplet and final chord. For me it was between Liberaty Fataly and FITHOS LUSEC WECOS VINOSEC.But after hearing LB ending again I whent for FLWV Plus you can't go wrong with awesome percussion.

[McFate]

Liberi Fatali for me - all the other themes are great as well, but this one just jumps out at you. :) And yeah, I think Advent: OWA is MUCH better than the plain orchestrated version. :D

[weabblewill]

You mean a round of 'Winner of Best Uematsu Work' vs. 'Winner of Best Uematsu-Hamaguchi Work'? That can easily be arranged. :)

Can we? I’d sure like to have a battle between the best of the two contests.

[Chris]

I am a little surprised at how well "One Winged Angel" is doing, simply because of the anti-sect. I'm not really part of that, though I happen to think that OWA isn't that impressive. I found "FFXI Opening Theme," "Liberi Fatali," and "Ending Theme" (FFVIII) all more balanced and better orchestrated.

I'm not sure how fair it'd be to pair it against Gilg, but it'd make an interesting round. So, yeah, why not?

Also, I'm moderately satisfied with what I said about the Ending Theme in my review, so I'll justify my reasons for voting for it by quoting it:

Final Fantasy VIII's ending was probably the best in the series, rivalled only by Final Fantasy IX, and Uematsu and Hamaguchi's score was one of the key reasons for this. Opening mysteriously in a string-led passage, the first two and a half minutes set the scene, but are breathtakingly orchestrated, with little hints of the sorceress' theme placed here and there to add interest, in conjunction with decoration from a piano, which fits this theme effortlessly, thanks to Mr. Hamaguchi. In the last 30 seconds this passage plays, the theme builds considerably, eventually leading to a rendition of "Eyes on Me," which is perfect for representing the tragic end to Rinoa and Squall's love story in a scene that could be considered the pinnacle of achievement in the game. Faye Wong's performance is unchanged from the original theme, but it is now fully orchestrated by Hamaguchi, making the theme much more deep and meaningful. This rendition is certainly vastly superior to the original, even if the lyrics are unchanged. Overall, this reprise of the theme is simply unforgettable.

After "Eyes on Me" has finished and the game's credits appear, the trademark "Final Fantasy" theme plays, following the precedent set by earlier Final Fantasy scores. It is, however, vastly superior to all earlier renditions, thanks to Hamaguchi's orchestration, which combines grandeur, emotion, and nostalgia into one, powerfully representing the magical journey that has just passed. The truly momentous part of the theme, however, is the final three minutes, which sees a full orchestration of the sorceress' theme in the grandest way possible followed by the use of music to accompany a touching epilogue scene. The opening brass fanfares retain the militaristic air that otherwise runs through the soundtrack, and the way the theme develops almost relentlessly simply makes the listener feel captivated, likely feeling exactly the same as they did with the introduction using "Liberi Fatali."

The final minute and a half of this theme is a breath of fresh air, with the sorceress' theme movingly transitioning into a much mellower section led by woodwinds. Here, the "Prelude" theme reappears, with harp arpeggios accompanying the deep orchestration that lies beneath, and this was a very welcome addition, considering it only otherwise appeared in "The Loser." Even more remarkably, however, the "I Want to Be Your Canary" theme from Final Fantasy IX makes a brief but heartfelt appearance, giving a glimpse of the next game in the series, while the credits state that the series will return. Over 13 minutes long, fully orchestrated, breathtakingly emotional, encompassing four major sections, incorporating four popular themes, and even providing a glimpse into the series' future, what more could you ask for? Right there with "Liberi Fatali" and "Silence and Motion," this is a timeless classic and a true masterpiece, and, in my opinion, unparalleled by any other ending theme in the series.

[TheShroud13]

I am a little surprised at how well "One Winged Angel" is doing, simply because of the anti-sect.

If this were done in the same manner as the original Uematsu contest, I'd be as surprised as you. But in an environment as this, all the anti "One Winged Angel" crowd have to vote for their own personal favourite, and it gets divided up among a great many other pieces. If you tally up all the non OWA votes and put them up against OWA, it gets devoured, but with the anti-sect divided, OWA still takes the cake because its fan base is pretty devoted.

[Chris]

Yeah, I guess you're right. 18/62 really isn't phenomenal at all. I'm pleasantly surprised at how well FFX's Ending Theme has done, though.

[Resk]

Come on... It is orchestrated. It is choired. Eventhough it's not live, it uses quality synthesizer.
If you see the twist and turn, the development of the notes and chords, nothing can beat One-Winged Angel and Liberi Fatali.
Nothing comes close to those two.
They are very epic.
Why are they so epic? Because they use a lot of minor and diminished chords.
When you listen to John Williams' song you will hear a lot of them too.
They are not sweet, beautiful score. They are powerfully terrifying score.
Hope this explains.

All of what you just said is exactly why it isn't very impressive. For example, you can play arrangements of both OWA and LF on piano - sure they're not the actual versions, but close enough - to get a feel for how the chord and note progressions are constructed; I've played both before. LF is by far more interesting to play, because of the variation. I'm a huge fan of minor chords, but they have to be used correctly to make the piece work. To put this in context, take the actual chords at the beginning of OWA. Now randomly spread your fingers on a keyboard somewhere within that key, and press down - there's barely any difference. That can't happen with LF.

For the record, I hate most of John Williams work, and think he's highly over-rated.

[Ronito]

So wait. I don't get it. You don't like them because they're not fun to play?

I mean there's tons of pieces for guitar that I wont play just because I find them boring, but I still like to listen to them.

[Chris]

For the record, I hate most of John Williams work, and think he's highly over-rated.

But you like Hans Zimmer? That makes me sad. :(

[Chris]

One Winged Angel (FFVII) 28.57 % (18)
Liberi Fatali (FFVIII) 17.46 % (11)
Ending Theme (FFX) 12.70 % (8)
Melodies of Life ~ Final Fantasy (FFIX) 7.94 % (5)
FFXI Opening Theme (FFXI) 7.94 % (5)
Ending Theme (FFVIII) 6.35 % (4)
Suteki da ne (FFX) 6.35 % (4)
FITHOS LUSEC WECOS VINOSEC (FFVIII) 4.76 % (3)
Suteki da ne -Orchestra Version- (FFX) 4.76 % (3)
Eyes On Me (FFVIII) 3.17 % (2)

Total votes: 63

Declaring "One Winged Angel" the winner here. :) I'm archiving this forum now, but it'll still be open. Expect an additional pairing at Will's request in FF Music Discussion shortly. I didn't want it to be official, though, as the separation was intended to avoid Uematsu's individual creations to be degraded. :)